egghelp/eggheads community

suche ein tcl :)

2003-09-23T17:42:43-04:00

I'm a newbie tcl programmer. I have learnt most of what i know now (which still isnt a great deal ) from help in this forum and working out how other people do it in their own scripts which they give they're time and effort for and post here without thought of any monitary gain. Without people like yourselves helping out not just in TCL but in everyday problems, People would'nt get very far. I for one am greatful for everyone taking the time to help out me and others on here. I do wish everyone would give credit where credit is due but sadly in the real world not everyone gives a $h*t. I would want credit for my hard work but the only safe way of not getting your code ripped is dont release it at all.

Keep up the good work guys.

^DooM^

Statistics: Posted by ^DooM^ — Tue Sep 23, 2003 5:42 pm

suche ein tcl :)

2003-09-23T16:26:42-04:00

btw, do you think that you would be some kinda bankrobbed if somebody changes the output of your tcl's ?

Intellectually, yes.. Thought goes into the user-interface of many a script, believe it or not.

i think you actualy just wanted to block beginners from stealing your code but allowing users who allready worked with tcl to view the code and learn from it (just change one EVAL in your tcl's and you got the real code).

Specifically regarding some of my scripts, I don't deny it would be simple to un-obfuscate the code on one level, however doing so would render completely unformatted scripture, which for most people, would deter them enough from wanting to go through it line by line to see what they would like to borrow (steal).

Who steals code has no right to get credits for it, that sentence everybody would sign (except bill gates who stole from apple). But : who looks at code and learns from it should be able to gain experience from it.

And i dont think ANYBODY in here started without looking at 3rd party scripts for learning purposes, and i must say i learned really much from what i've seen in here.

There are many avenues today which people can use to learn TCL... For example, going through this forum alone would give people more than enough knowledge to write a simple script or two.

And yes, of course, there are open source scripts to learn from, which is the right (but not an obligation) of every author to present to the public for such purposes, if they are so inclined.

Statistics: Posted by strikelight — Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:26 pm

suche ein tcl :)

2003-09-23T16:13:16-04:00

strikelight : face it, eggdrop is just fun-stuff....sometimes usefull but no unreplaceable feature that a normal TCL script / c-tool / whatever could replace

btw, do you think that you would be some kinda bankrobbed if somebody changes the output of your tcl's ? i think you actualy just wanted to block beginners from stealing your code but allowing users who allready worked with tcl to view the code and learn from it (just change one EVAL in your tcl's and you got the real code).

i only started with TCL because i didn't want to be Delphi-only (which i needed for my shool) and i had no time for a real language like C / C++.
i started with common TCL's and looked how they work.
the next step was editing the TCL's for my needs.
then i started with my own small TCL's for little jobs and now i work on bigger projects like my new RSS / RDF / XML Newsticker system.

Who steals code has no right to get credits for it, that sentence everybody would sign (except bill gates who stole from apple). But : who looks at code and learns from it should be able to gain experience from it.

And i dont think ANYBODY in here started without looking at 3rd party scripts for learning purposes, and i must say i learned really much from what i've seen in here.

Statistics: Posted by GodOfSuicide — Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:13 pm

suche ein tcl :)

2003-09-23T15:21:54-04:00

I thought it was about blood, sweat and tears. Some credit here and there together with fun and a beer/pizza now and then

You have been disillusioned
There's also a bunch of bad eggs salted in with your recipe

Statistics: Posted by strikelight — Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:21 pm

suche ein tcl :)

2003-09-23T15:13:31-04:00

[snip] Atleast with obfuscation/encryption/bytecoding, protection for actual original intellectual property is made stronger.

"protection for actual original intellectual property"... is that what eggdrop, its coders-, users- and scripters community is about?

I thought it was about blood, sweat and tears. Some credit here and there together with fun and a beer/pizza now and then

Statistics: Posted by egghead — Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:13 pm

suche ein tcl :)

2003-09-23T15:02:18-04:00

You may note that we are talking about the eggdrop community here. Remember? Not about Windows and Microsoft. Not about programmers having (or losing) a job coding eggdrop and related Tcl's.
I do hope eggdrop scripters will not follow the bytecoding. For various reasons it is very bad karma IMO.

Who knows if eggdrop had been released commercially to begin with, perhaps the developers would be getting paid for their product.

Like you said, many script ideas are taken without giving proper credit to the original author. How can we check that some of those "stolen" snippets are not included in such a bytecoded script?

This is true, however even if you could tell if code was stolen, as with current open source scripts, what could you do about it? Absolutely nothing.. Atleast with obfuscation/encryption/bytecoding, protection for actual original intellectual property is made stronger.

Statistics: Posted by strikelight — Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:02 pm

suche ein tcl :)

2003-09-23T14:56:01-04:00

As for supporting the idea of open source, you make it sound like everyone would want to support the idea of open source, but when you think about it, open source puts alot of programmers out of a job. It has it's benefits, but it also has it's downfalls, and as with anything, there will always be a need for people to decide which is more important to them.

Agreed. Coders may offer their own code in any way they want.

Note that nowhere I made it sound like everyone wants to support the idea of open source. Please refrain from making such erroneous generalisations.

You may note that we are talking about the eggdrop community here. Remember? Not about Windows and Microsoft. Not about programmers having (or losing) a job coding eggdrop and related Tcl's.
I do hope eggdrop scripters will not follow the bytecoding. For various reasons it is very bad karma IMO.

Like you said, many script ideas are taken without giving proper credit to the original author. How can we check that some of those "stolen" snippets are not included in such a bytecoded script?

Statistics: Posted by egghead — Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:56 pm

suche ein tcl :)

2003-09-23T14:44:43-04:00

If you would like a feature added/changed, you should always contact the original script author and make such a request, in my opinion.
if the source is not open it's hard to detect if there is any securety hole or lame function in it (like some wgets etc).
and if i want to change triggers, output, etc to addapt it to my needs but just use it for myself and dont alter the TCL's header too i dont see any reason why that should be wrong.

and since TCL is a scripting language if find the idea of compiled code some kinda pervert. i want the control over my bot, not the bot controling me and my shell.

If you don't trust the author then you shouldn't use it. Although, many people don't trust Bill Gates, but they still use Windows. If you want to change triggers/output/etc.. they can all be added to a configuration setting by the author, if you atleast make an attempt to ask them.

If you want control over your bot, then might I suggest you don't use scripts produced by other people. In fact, I for one, if you were to be using any scripts that I had released to the public, would prefer it if you didn't use them at all, if your intention is to just hack it to shreds just because you were too lazy to make a feature request. Create your own scripts from scratch.

Statistics: Posted by strikelight — Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:44 pm

suche ein tcl :)

2003-09-23T14:47:24-04:00

i hate those guys...if you want to release a script then put the whole script online, and no need for some stupid compile / encrypt / etc system...
i dont like to install scripts where i cant controll what they do...
I respect their decision for doing it that way..
There are way too many code jackers out there willing to modify or steal existing code, and then take credit for it. Most script authors would actually prefer that you don't go beyond their configuration settings. If you would like a feature added/changed, you should always contact the original script author and make such a request, in my opinion.

And If I had to guess, you probably run some version of windows, which, as I'm sure you already know, isn't open source yet you still use it.
First you defend the idea of closed source (if those tcl's may be considered closed source) and then you bash GodOfSuicide for (maybe) running windows. Doesn't make sense.

My 2 Eurocents: coders can offer their code any way they prefer. But not offering the plain script doesn't help the idea of open source either.

My speculation based on the few lines of plain code provided: the code offered is so mediocre, the only way to hide it is by bytecoding it.

No, I was not bashing GodOfSuicide... Fact is everyone (99% of the population) runs some form or other of Windows, including myself. My point was, we use it blindly without needing to see the source.

As for supporting the idea of open source, you make it sound like everyone would want to support the idea of open source, but when you think about it, open source puts alot of programmers out of a job. It has it's benefits, but it also has it's downfalls, and as with anything, there will always be a need for people to decide which is more important to them.

Statistics: Posted by strikelight — Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:39 pm

suche ein tcl :)

2003-09-23T14:35:25-04:00

If you would like a feature added/changed, you should always contact the original script author and make such a request, in my opinion.

if the source is not open it's hard to detect if there is any securety hole or lame function in it (like some wgets etc).
and if i want to change triggers, output, etc to addapt it to my needs but just use it for myself and dont alter the TCL's header too i dont see any reason why that should be wrong.

and since TCL is a scripting language if find the idea of compiled code some kinda pervert. i want the control over my bot, not the bot controling me and my shell.

Statistics: Posted by GodOfSuicide — Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:35 pm

suche ein tcl :)

2003-09-23T14:14:40-04:00

http://eggnet.warpzone.org/

has a soccer (european football) script (bytecoded), as such you will need to install their main core library as well.
i hate those guys...if you want to release a script then put the whole script online, and no need for some stupid compile / encrypt / etc system...
i dont like to install scripts where i cant controll what they do...
I respect their decision for doing it that way..
There are way too many code jackers out there willing to modify or steal existing code, and then take credit for it. Most script authors would actually prefer that you don't go beyond their configuration settings. If you would like a feature added/changed, you should always contact the original script author and make such a request, in my opinion.

And If I had to guess, you probably run some version of windows, which, as I'm sure you already know, isn't open source yet you still use it.

First you defend the idea of closed source (if those tcl's may be considered closed source) and then you bash GodOfSuicide for (maybe) running windows. Doesn't make sense.

My 2 Eurocents: coders can offer their code any way they prefer. But not offering the plain script doesn't help the idea of open source either.

My speculation based on the few lines of plain code provided: the code offered is so mediocre, the only way to hide it is by bytecoding it.

Statistics: Posted by egghead — Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:14 pm

suche ein tcl :)

2003-09-23T13:29:28-04:00

http://eggnet.warpzone.org/

has a soccer (european football) script (bytecoded), as such you will need to install their main core library as well.
i hate those guys...if you want to release a script then put the whole script online, and no need for some stupid compile / encrypt / etc system...
i dont like to install scripts where i cant controll what they do...

I respect their decision for doing it that way..
There are way too many code jackers out there willing to modify or steal existing code, and then take credit for it. Most script authors would actually prefer that you don't go beyond their configuration settings. If you would like a feature added/changed, you should always contact the original script author and make such a request, in my opinion.

And If I had to guess, you probably run some version of windows, which, as I'm sure you already know, isn't open source yet you still use it.

Statistics: Posted by strikelight — Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:29 pm

suche ein tcl :)

2003-09-23T08:13:45-04:00

http://eggnet.warpzone.org/

has a soccer (european football) script (bytecoded), as such you will need to install their main core library as well.

i hate those guys...if you want to release a script then put the whole script online, and no need for some stupid compile / encrypt / etc system...
i dont like to install scripts where i cant controll what they do...

Statistics: Posted by GodOfSuicide — Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:13 am

:P

2003-09-23T06:58:37-04:00

big thx (auch für die übersetzung) hehe

Statistics: Posted by Guest — Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:58 am

suche ein tcl :)

2003-09-22T18:30:28-04:00

reeloop : this is an english forum, but i'll translate it for the others in here...
rEElOOp wrote:
i've seen a bot that posts Soccer Leagues ("German Bundesliga") results and so on and also scores and infos about currently running matches. Does somebody in here know such a thing ? Does somebody know where to get this? (i stripped the last 2 ?, hope you dont mind...)

http://eggnet.warpzone.org/

has a soccer (european football) script (bytecoded), as such you will need to install their main core library as well.

Statistics: Posted by strikelight — Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:30 pm